Curse

asdar · Dec 23, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

I'm hating GvG now. We don't do it a ton but I have no desire to ever partake.

In our match I'd say 70% we totally dominate, usually flawless, in 20% we get totally owned and 10% we have a good fight. That'd be pretty generous to say 10%.

Of all of those one 1 out of 10 is fun for me. I want the challenge. And every single one of those 10 matches with setup up, waiting for a challenger and going through the motions of combat takes a half hour or more.

I'm not sure of how to fix this unless there's some way to get enough teams going to ensure a fair challenge.

I see people all the time touting GvG, is there something I'm missing in this whole thing? Maybe it's better at the very top.

Red Locust · Dec 24, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

If you dominate 70% of gvg matches, you'll eventually reach a level where you get outclassed. Keep playing, because if you only play one or two gvg's a week, your rank will keep going down automatically and you'll never get to a desirable difficulty level.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Dec 24, 2005, 03:00 AM // 03:00

I just did a GvG and they were pretty pathetic because we weren't that good, or atleast there is a lot of room for improvement. But thanks to nigh of inferno for helping us out.

Dmitri3 · Dec 24, 2005, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Get to the Top 10, here's your challenge!

Patrograd · Dec 24, 2005, 09:53 AM // 09:53

Strange post. GvG is a constant challenge requiring constant build and tactical adaptations as you move up the ladder and meet different kinds of enemies. as has been said, if you are dominating 70% of your matches you will soon move up the ladder. A 70% win ratio will see you in the top 100 pretty quickly I guess.

Guillaume De Sonoma · Dec 24, 2005, 10:15 AM // 10:15

we started out a 7.5k rank because someone decided that it would be good to fight with henchies and 3 otehr new recruits. But the next three matches were with 9k to 10k+ ranked teams. No challenge we flawlessed them all. They like henchies too much those high ranked guilds. We met some better guilds and lost, no big really shit happens. We met some more teams and pulled a out a few wins, then lost to another well organized team. Were at just under 3k rank, but it is ok for our first day of doing GvG since they reset the ladder.

immolatus · Dec 24, 2005, 05:24 PM // 17:24

This might not apply, but some months ago, my guild started GvGing and from Rank 2000 went up to about 700 in 3 days. By the end of the first week we were at about 350. Then we got owned pretty bad the following matches untill our rank drop to almost 1000 again. I guess it constantly changes, so that is challenge enough for some people.

Pinna · Dec 25, 2005, 06:20 PM // 18:20

Everybody enjoys the different aspects of the game differently. Perhaps GvG just isn't for you.

Just as the whole "PMG it r green sel 2 m3 4 2ook plzthx" doesn't really appeal to me.

crimsonfilms · Dec 26, 2005, 01:43 AM // 01:43

GvG rank does not really stabilizes until you play 30 or more games. Less than that and your guild rank will not be an accurate reflection.
A 7:1 win ratio should get you on the top 20 if you are consistent and assumes you maintain that level throughout!!
Lets say you have a 28-12 (70% winning) record, average of 15 points per win and lose, you should be the top 300 or so.

Getting pass 200 is very tough. 100? Much much tougher.
Top 50 and holding it? Elite.

So there is definetly a lot of challenge there.

What is your guild anyway?

reboot · Dec 26, 2005, 07:58 AM // 07:58

My team got bored with this and eventually it made enough people leave that we retired after being top 50 for a while. Beating noobs over and over, sucks. We beat some good guilds current top tens, but it wasn't enough to keep us interested, cause its so few and far between.
You cant have a very serious ladder where only 1% of the teams are any decent at all and thats what GW is now.

One and Two · Dec 26, 2005, 08:27 AM // 08:27

What rank are you guys? and what time do you guys play? Cus yeah, there's no challenge if you play rank 500 teams and below.

edit: I should be fair. There is no challenge for a serious PvPers to gain slots on the ladder until like the 200ish mark.

Warskull · Dec 26, 2005, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Like 1&2 mentioned if you are lower on the ladder and are somewhat decent GvG won't be too much of a challenge until you climb up a bit. What most people don't realize is that there are a ton of bad teams out there. If you have 8 players who take PvP seriously (and actually take the time to learn a bit about the game) and a decent build you can easily climb the ladder. It isn't until the upper echelon that GvG gets to be fiercely competitive. However it is also incredibly rewarding play at that level. The metagame shifts constantly and the games to be tax players to their utmost. Pulling map tactics, build making, coordination, map control, and many other elements into the game.

It sounds like you may be in the middle level, which will be a problem. The middle level players can beat most of the ladder, but still tend to get crushed by the top tier teams. The problem is there aren't a lot of mid-level guilds GvGing at once so you tend to either get teams you dominate or teams that dominate you.

crimsonfilms · Dec 26, 2005, 08:43 PM // 20:43

Quote:

Beating noobs over and over, sucks. We beat some good guilds current top tens, but it wasn't enough to keep us interested, cause its so few and far between.

What is your guild? Would you mine telling us? What top 10 teams did you beat.
The difference between top 50 and top 10 is huge. Hell I guest once for a smurf guild of a well known elite guild and we beat up a rank 50+ guild without breaking a sweat. And that was with 2 people trying out - not the regular "A" team. We only suffered 1 death.

Quote:

You cant have a very serious ladder where only 1% of the teams are any decent at all and thats what GW is now.

By definition the top teams are a select few. Who is your guild? It is interesting the top guilds tends to be the most active (Te, iQ, EW, EP, Rus, Nu, SNA, EnS, etc). Your guild seems to be the exact opposite.

reboot · Dec 26, 2005, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

What is your guild? Would you mine telling us? What top 10 teams did you beat.
The difference between top 50 and top 10 is huge. Hell I guest once for a smurf guild of a well known elite guild and we beat up a rank 50+ guild without breaking a sweat. And that was with 2 people trying out - not the regular "A" team. We only suffered 1 death.

By definition the top teams are a select few. Who is your guild? It is interesting the top guilds tends to be the most active (Te, iQ, EW, EP, Rus, Nu, SNA, EnS, etc). Your guild seems to be the exact opposite.

lol i just might tell a troll like you, that would be smart, then you could turn this thread into a flame war.

your're cool!

crimsonfilms · Dec 27, 2005, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

lol i just might tell a troll like you, that would be smart, then you could turn this thread into a flame war.
your're cool!

Troll? Let me see, you make claims that you can't back up and we asked politely you do so. Yet you remain vague.

All was aksed is to back up your 70% domination of ladder with ladder. Why? You open a discussion how easy the ladder is. Fine. Some people disagree with you - like I. We disagree because the hard facts of the ladder and proof using the new Observer mode that ladder is in fact very difficult - especially in the top 100 - let alone the top 20.

There was no cheap shots or flames directed at you, yet you make a passing saracastic cheap shot. If you feel offended well so be it.

Would that be smart telling us? Yes.
Am I cool? Some people say so. But that is besides the point is it?

asdar · Dec 27, 2005, 05:05 PM // 17:05

I don't think there's much of a chance my guild will move up now. We don't GvG at all anymore.

Ahh well, the highest we were was 318 and we faced a couple of the better guilds but I couldn't tell you from memory what they were. The people that were into it mostly left and the few that remain just can't get online at the same time.

I'd like to break into the top 50 and see if it's any better.

How long do your guild battles take to play and what percentage of games do you guess are below 500 if you don't mind my asking.

crimsonfilms · Dec 27, 2005, 07:38 PM // 19:38

Guild battles varies. Other than skill of the team itself, the biggest determination is the builds in my opinion. There are pressure and degen builds that just takes a long time to put down an entire team. Then there are spike teams that can eat up a team in the first 5 minutes.

A fast game in my opinion is 5-15 minutes. Anything below that and the term "ownage" is appropriate. Typical is 15-30 minutes. However, it is not unusual for game to go 20-50 minutes. Things like VoD and hard ressing becomes an important factor.

If you watch a top 20 team vs a top 200 team, the games are about 10-20 minutes. Top 10 teams are totally different story. iQ, Te, WM, Viki, EW, EP, EnS, Uni and ZPZG can wipe a non top 20 team in less than 15 minutes. Often they can do it faster but because of discipline they will not push on guild lord too quickly (a quick death in guild lord push is the fastest way to turn the tides).

reboot · Dec 28, 2005, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by crimsonfilms

Troll? Let me see, you make claims that you can't back up and we asked politely you do so. Yet you remain vague.

yup im a liar..

now what qualifies you to dispute anything i say?

You will probally say "we only beat EP when they were testing a build", which isnt true, So now you can start to make excuses, and false claimes, go for it I don't care.

If you look at the image its not to brag, You begged for proof. It shows how we beat the best, and how every other game was crap +5 noob bashing.

crimsonfilms · Dec 28, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

First off, you obviously selected the "good" sections of your guild history. Mind posting the unedited version?

Second, I assume it is *your* guild history? I am unclear based on the picture.

Third, other than XoO (W424 - L275), Royal Guild (R679), Flower (W154-L65), Black Fire (W29-L8) and of course EP the rest of your winnings are from guilds not on the current 1000 ladder! At best they where at 1000 then broke up and at worst - they where above 1000. Even Dark Faith was on the top 20 once.

Fourth, calculating your rating winning points, your guild ranking is 400-600 (estimation of course. It all depends when you won these games).

I give you where credit is due (beating EP and to a degree Flowers) but in the very least you are overestimating the wins you have posted.

Quote:

yup im a liar..

Liar? No - just intentionally vague IMO.

Quote:

now what qualifies you to dispute anything i say?

All the qualifications you have afforded me. Am I on the top 50 guild? No. Not even the top 200. Then again, I am not the one who claims the ladder is 99% waste of my time.

Apologies if you are in the top guild and do find the ladder easy. But you could have settled our discussion much quicker by saying your guild name.

reboot · Dec 28, 2005, 10:44 PM // 22:44

I was top 50 untill it got borring, next please... BTW you forgot breakfeast cereal, and thanks for proving my point by saing only Ep and Legendary counted... its easy to be in top 50 and there isnt much compitition on the ladder so it gets boring.

All the guilds I posted only EP has ever beat us, they beat us alot, and of those only EP lasted more then 5 minutes ever. I could make top 100 with 2 wars, 2 mo and 4 henchmen, I would never try but I know i could, becuase i know how bad the ladder is.

FFS look at nO they are top 20 and havent played for a month.